She apparently needs a quick refresher in Catholicism, Canon Law, and an adage about "glass houses." Catholicism does not support ANY sex out of wedlock, and it does not support sex for any reason other than procreation. It seems a little late for her to be waving the Vatican's banner with any kind of self-righteousness. Does she have a religious foundation for her words? Marginally, perhaps. Does she have a LEGAL foundation for her words? NOPE. Maybe he should advise her than when she behaves as a perfect Catholic should, then she can demand the same of him.

The Catholic church absolutely does not teach this. The church frowns on premarital sex and childbirth without benefit of marriage; it says nothing on how to negotiate the situations after they happen. Catholics can and do marry non-Catholics all the time.

Hmmm, I never heard of that (my ex is Catholic and our first was concieved out of wedlock) If there were any truth to that my mother-in-law would have done something about it. <rolling eyes> Regardless, I think it is more important what your State's Laws are. I think...

She has no idea what she is talking about. I think she is using this as a ploy to get what she wants. Call her priest... he needs to have a talk with her.

No, it is not true. I had a child out of wedlock (I am Catholic) with a non Catholic. The only thing the Church states is in order to have the child Baptised in the Church, or to get married in the Church to a non-Catholic, you must agree to raise all children in the Catholic Faith.

No, that's ridiculous. The only thing a non-catholic can't do is have a catholic wedding (unless they go through the classes and the whole nine yards). There is absolutely nothing about marrying a non-catholic outside the church...

What a load of rubbish, if she was such a good catholic she shouldnt have been having sexual relations with anyone until she was married! So tell her she is talking bull..her church obviously hasnt taught her anything at all!!

In the US, she cannot deny him the child no matter if he is a Satanist. That's illegal. What the Catholic church has to say on the matter is irrelevant. Having said that, it seems to me like she's using this as emotional blackmail to get him to convert to her religion. I guess she really should have thought about that before she started the relationship with a nonCatholic.

couple problems there-(and I am a practicing Catholic, would even say I'm devout) 1) legally she can't deny him the child simply because he isn't Catholic 2)I wouldn't put any credence in her threat because if she was truly a practicing, devout member of the church, she wouldn't be having a child without receiving the sacrament of marriage. Apparently she's not that worried about her own status as a Catholic, so saying she's worried about you son's sounds like emotional blackmail, and a dirty trick,and I'm curious about her motives. I'd tell her to talk to her priest, but I would guess she doesn't actually have one and hasn't been to mass in a long time, or received any of the sacraments. I sound judgemental, but I really dislike people who only pull out the religion card when it's convenient.

lol...lol she is NOT a catholic at all ...if she was she wouldn't have spread her legs ....she hasn't got a legal or moral leg to stand on ...lol f*cking hypocrite!

What a self rightous nut case. She doesn't have a leg to stand on with both the law and the Church. These kinds of threats will get the child taken away by the state if he takes it to court. And the Church doesn't teach or support this at all. Sounds to me like she's black mailing him and will be till that child is 18 if he doesn't nip it in the bud right now.

Be AFRAID, be VERY AFRAID!!! The catholic church is a cult & there is NOTHING in their Past, that they would NOT Do to CONTROL PEOPLE!!! However on This one, I think the woman is UNSTABLE as #1. She got Pregnant. #2. She has been trying from the beginning to Assert Herself as the "Alpha Male" which is TWISTED, MANIPULATIVE & EVIL, Assuring a "Lifetime" of Problems in ANY MARRIAGE!!! I Doubt that U will be able to get them to read this, but I still Offer U this Small Doctrine. Enjoy! John DOCTRINE OF RIGHT MAN AND RIGHT WOMAN A. The right woman is the oldest and one of many grace gifts to man. 1. There are three prominent grace gifts from Christ to man delineated in Scripture, and these are the order in which they occur in the human race: a. Right woman, He built her, Prov 18:22, 19:13-14. b. Salvation, He did it. c. Doctrine, He thought it, 1 Cor 2:16. 2. In all of human history, right woman is the oldest human gift, for Christ brought the woman to the man, Gen 2:18. 3. The fall of man did not change their relationship. B. Attacks on the gift of right man/right woman. 1. Reversionism, especially phallic reversionism is an attack on the concept of right man/right woman. 2. Life in the cosmic system is an attack on right man/right woman. 3. All mental attitude sins attack right man/right woman, SOS 8:6, 8; Prov 27:4, 6:34. 4. Negative volition to doctrine is an attack on right man/right woman, Jer 15:8-9, 15-21, 16:1-2, 17:9-11, 12:7-9. Negative volition to doctrine destroys right man/right woman relationship. 5. Scripture: Prov 5, 6:20-32; 1 Cor 11:3-16; Jer 31:22; Eccel 7:26-29. 6. No disaster, pressure, or unfaithful act, can destroy personal love between a right man and a right woman. 7. The greatest attack on right man/right woman comes from the soul: scar tissue of the soul, emotional revolt of the soul, and reversionism. These attacks are accompanied by fornication and promiscuity. C. Perversions of Right Man/Right Woman. 1. Auto-erotism, masturbation, or self-response to self. 2. Homosexuality or lesbianism, Lev 18:22; Rom 1:26-27. 3. Bestiality, Lev 18:23. 4. Fornication, Ex 20:14; Prov 5:20, 6:32. D. Analogies of Right Man/Right Woman. 1. Right man/right woman is used to teach many types of doctrine since it is one of the most common relationships to the human race. 2. The Lord and Israel, Jer 2, 3, 13; Ezek 16, 23. 3. The Lord and the Church, Eph 5:26-33. 4. Operation Z, James 1:19-22. 5. Christ, the shepherd and bishop of the believer's soul, 1 Pet 2:25 cf 1 Pet 3:1. 6. The mature believer is the glory of God, 1 Cor 11:7. E. Right Man/Right Woman Related to the Laws of Divine Establishment. 1. Monogamy is designed to remind the human race that there is only one right man for one right woman and visa versa, 1 Cor 7:2-4. 2. Under these laws marriage becomes the second divine institution. 3. Marriage is still the protection of romantic love, Heb 13:4; 1 Cor 7:9; 1 Tim 5:14; Rom 7:2-3; Gen 2:24-25; Eph 5:22, 25, 28, 31, 33. 4. Marriage forms the basis for stability in society, and rejects the theory and practice of anarchy, promiscuity, and communal living. 5. Marriage is also protected by the third divine institution, family, where parents have the responsibility of training their children. 6. The husband is the authority in the marriage, Eph 5:22. 7. God protects the woman from tyranny by the training of the little boy by his mother. His mother teaches the man respect for womanhood, and keeps him from becoming an animal. Prov 31:1-2. 8. Once the couple is married, the doctrine of right man/right woman no longer applies. Now it is a matter of honor, integrity, and impersonal love which must provide the power for the marriage to work. F. The Man and Woman's Relationship at the Fall. 1. After the Fall, God confirms the fact that the man's authority is not changed, even though he responded to the woman, Eph 3:16b, 5:22. 2. In Gen 3:6 we see the reversal of the roles of the man and woman in the Fall. 3. Until the Fall, sex had been a total pleasure and an experience of perfect happiness. After the Fall, a secondary role is added: it is the means of perpetuating the human race. Without children they had only themselves to consider. But with children a second authority develops of parents over children, and this develops problems and complications in the right man/right woman relationship. 4. Therefore, the woman bears the children, Gen 3:15, and through her comes Jesus Christ, Gen 3:16. G. The Recognition of Right Man/Right Woman. 1. Personal love is recognized by both parties. 2. Right man can always tell the mood of his right woman by her voice. The right man's soul will have a total understanding of the right woman's soul, emotions, moods, etc. 3. The right woman may love or hate her right man, but she cannot stop thinking about him. Right man/right woman can never be just friends. 4. You won't be adjusted to people until you find right man/right woman. 5. Every time right man is with right woman, it is a blessing to him. 6. The man cannot work to get his right woman; it is a grace gift from God. God always brings the right woman to the right man. Grace takes up the slack before you find right woman. Doctrine is your right woman until God leads her to you. You don't need to date others while waiting. 7. If a woman doesn't recognize God's authority, she will never recognize her right man's authority. Long hair on a woman is a sign of the right man's authority over her. Wearing long hair is a sign that a woman is waiting for her right man. 8. Your right woman will not react to you. Bitchiness in a woman is an indication of the wrong woman. 9. A wrong woman is always dressing to show off what she has physically. 10. With the right woman there is a period of waiting, resisting temptation, and a period of doubt before God brings the right woman to the right man. H. Right Man/Right Woman and the Soul Climax, 1 Cor 7:8-9. 1. When you find your right woman, physical compatibility is no problem; the difficulty is recognition in the soul. a. Right man/right woman are not ashamed or disappointed in each other physically. The right woman fits the right man perfectly in sex. The right woman's body is the most magnificent thing to the right man. b. You cannot make a woman your right woman by having sex with her. c. Right woman is a storm of passion when the right man makes love to her. When the right man makes love to his right woman, he satisfies her soul as well as her body. This gives her insatiability. The right man sees his right woman as personifying symmetry and beauty. d. Jesus Christ is the giver of sex as the total concept of happiness with one's right woman. e. Before your right woman comes along, you must have an affair with Bible doctrine by taking in doctrine every day until it becomes the love of your life. 2. When the right woman comes along, both will have a soul climax. a. Sexual burning is not a soul climax. This is an indication of wrong woman. Fornication excludes the soul, and therefore always produces wrong man/wrong woman. Shopping around is human viewpoint. b. The soul climax is the divine design of recognition of your right man or right woman. "Burning" has nothing to do with libido. It refers to when two souls have climaxed and are not yet able to make love because the two people are not yet married. No sex can compare with the sex between right man and right woman. c. Therefore, it is better to marry than to burn in personal love for right man or right woman after you have made the soul identification. The right man or right woman can make identification without touching. c. The right woman always emphasizes the soul of her right man when they first know each other. She is looking for his precious soul. The right man is the most precious thing to the right woman, but she emphasizes his soul and hunts for that soul. d. To recognize his right woman, the right man needs only to have the soul climax; no physical contact is necessary. There is no need for heavy necking before getting married. Heavy necking knocks out the ability of the right woman to recognize her right man via a soul climax. e. The soul climax is being out from soul control, because someone else so stimulates your soul. This is the only person who pulls you away from your own self-consciousness into being more aware of them than yourself. You become more thoughtful of them, interested in them, and more concerned and involved with them than yourself. f. A super-rapport develops where the two people cannot wait to share what has happened while they were apart. They enjoy conversation, and even their silence has super-rapport. g. Sex before marriage destroys your capacity to have a soul climax, Prov 6:32. Abstaining from fornication protects the soul, so that it can have a soul climax and the fantastic happiness Christ wants every member of the human race to have. God isn't trying to keep you from having fun, but from missing out on greater fun than Satan and his cosmic system can provide. h. Mentally this person becomes your frame of reference for everything. All memories are related to this person. Over a period of time your norms and standards change so that this person is the honorable one, while other people are insignificant. In your viewpoint, everything in life is related to that right man or right woman. From your volition, you adjust your life with pleasure to please your right partner. You dress to please them and omit things in life to please them. Your emotion has a fantastic response to them. i. If you are in emotional revolt of the soul, you cannot have a soul climax. j. The soul climax is that soul identification in every compartment of the essence of the soul, which stimulates total soul concentration on a member of the opposite sex. It is involuntary total soul concentration. k. Total involvement of the soul essence means that the climax of the soul as an identifier will cover every area of the soul except the old sin nature. l. The right man fulfills her norms and standards, principles, categories, provides soul stimulation, and gives reality to her romantic dreams. 3. The soul climax is the divine design for recognition of your right man or right woman. I. Identification of the Right Woman, Prov 31:10-31. 1. Verse 10 says that your right woman will have certain things for you that she doesn't have for anyone else. The man must recognize her first and be aggressive to her. The man makes the identification first. 2. In verse 11, the right woman becomes a home to the right man. The heart of the man is at home with the right woman's soul. The right woman regards the right man as her lord. The right man's right lobe has confidence in her. This is called love-security of the soul. The right woman won't flirt, tease, or think about some other guy. She is totally occupied with him when he is absent. 3. In verse 12, the right woman will do good to the right man, show him good, and cause him good. 4. In verse 13, the right woman makes decisions to please her right man. The right woman dresses only to please her right man. Her soul is so occupied with him that she is motivated to always appear in clothing he appreciates. She searches diligently to find clothes to impress him. She works with pleasure because it is for her right man. 5. Verse 14 says that she goes to extra effort to find things for her right man to please him, like his favorite food. 6. Verse 15 says that her mental attitude determines how things go around the house. The right woman places love for her right man above her own comfort and personal wants. 7. Verse 16 says that she pleases her right man in business, e.g., she is an aggressive business woman. 8. In verse 17, her soul and body are at his disposal. She responds to only her right man sexually, and anything goes. She encourages him with her arms. 9. In verse 18, anything she does related to her right man always tastes good to her. He always tastes good to her. She is stimulated by him and in a state of perfect human happiness. 10. In verse 19, her hands are occupied with those things which bless him. She gives him no cause for concern. She doesn't play games (cheat on him), nor is she vindictive and seek revenge against him. 11. Verse 20 says that because her soul is full of grace happiness from her right man, she extends grace to others. 12. Verse 21 says that the right woman anticipates certain kinds of disaster and heads them off. She prepares for disaster before it arrives and makes provision. Her instincts of love keep her concentrating on her right man. She no longer depends on parties, outside friends, and fun. She doesn't try to hurt her right man who is so vulnerable to her social or mental unfaithfulness. 13. In verse 22, the right woman makes herself beautiful around the house because her right man is there. 14. Verse 23 says that she is not a nag. The right woman makes it possible for the right man to concentrate on work and be away from home without worrying about her. She compliments and implements, but never competes with her right man. She turns him on, but never puts him down. She seduces him, but never belittles him. 15. In verse 24, the right woman supports her right man with fanatical loyalty and love. 16. Verse 25 says that the right woman is the glory of her right man and wears her glory in her soul, which includes having a sense of humor. She has beauty of soul. She is totally relaxed, giving her the ability to laugh at housework, office work, or whatever she must do. 17. In verse 26, when she speaks, the right man is thrilled because wisdom comes out of her mouth. Divine viewpoint and Bible doctrine is the basis of her conversation. She refrains from verbal sins. 18. In verse 27, she is alert in her soul and not idle. 19. Verse 28 says that her sons remember her with happiness. 20. In verse 29, she waits for her right man by taking in doctrine. For the right man only one woman surpasses all others: his right woman. 21. Verse 30 says that you should not use physical beauty to determine your right woman. Beauty is deceitful. Identification is made in the soul. When you get turned on by some woman's looks, then you missed your identification. She is not your right woman. Beauty, sex appeal, and a great body, is not the basis for recognition of the right woman. Once identification is made in the soul, you will find she has the most beautiful body. The woman occupied with Christ will receive praise from her right man. 22. In verse 31, the responsive right woman becomes aggressive with her hands and lips. No wrong woman can compare. You don't have to prove anything in public to others that you are right man/right woman; touching is private. J. The Responsiveness of the Right Woman. 1. When a woman is a true responder, she initiates her response from her own free will. Right man/right woman have true communication. 2. A woman in response is aggressive. She doesn't stand around and wait for the right man to be aggressive. He doesn't have to be the aggressor on every occasion. 3. The right woman can respond to an aggressive act the right man committed a year before. She is designed for compliments, recognition, and individual attention. K. The Submission of the Right Woman. 1. If a woman is in love, she is happy to surrender her volition to the man and he will care for it. Without mental rapport, there is bad sex life. If the woman doesn't give her soul, she is cheating her man. 2. Submission of the right woman is not slavery but fulfillment. Grace inner beauty in the woman is something which the wrong man sees which he cannot fulfill. A right woman may even change friends to please her right man. The right woman's norms and standards will become one with her right man's. One person's sins don't cause sins by the other person; the same is true for human good. 3. The man should never demand anything from a woman, because he won't get anything anyway. The man cannot demand volitional response or appreciation. 4. The right woman is never shocked by the good or bad points of her right man. Her right man is a point of doctrine. Because Bible doctrine is in her soul and he is a point of doctrine, he is always in her soul, and therefore she will always be faithful. 5. A woman goes quickly from objectivity to subjectivity because she is a responder. 6. The right man will always give her something to which to respond. She saves those things in her memory so that she can respond to them again. 7. The right man, positive to doctrine, will lead in spiritual things. 8. A woman has no security in life except the security of her right man. When a man comes along and is faithful to her and no one else, and she knows it, then that person has her attention forever. 9. When you keep a promise to a woman, it impresses her. She responds. A woman who is a responder to too many things in life also makes herself a reactor to many things in life. The more you respond, the more you react. 

I am the one who posted this question. Your answers have been very helpful and have confirmed what I have suspected. I asked because I have no expert knowlege on the Catholic faith. I have taken your advice and contacted her priest. He also has confirmed what has been discussed here, as a matter of fact, he didn't even know she was with child. He is going to talk to her. I have no judgement on people's faiths, as long as they are hurting no one. I am doing my best to ensure this girl's mental health for the sake of the child, my son and her. I feel that she is having unhealthy ouside influences, namely her father, who who feels that my son, (the "evil" one), dirtied his daughter. This, however, is just a guess. I fully believe that a child is a gift and deserves ALL the love they can get in this day and age. I am not pushing the marriage issue with them as I feel that would be disasterous, but I am pushing the fact that parents need to support and respect each other to ensure the child a healthy outlook on life and relationships. Regardless of all this foolishness I am VERY excited about becoming a Granny for the first time. Thank you and bless you all.

Absolutely not. The church would prefer that the child be baptized and raised as a catholic and do not push non-catholics to join the faith. Legally, your son has parental rights and should ensure that they are enforced.

They conceived out of wedluck.Then by right the child belongs to the parents of the mother. Legally,there is no basis for the father to claim the child.The girl is not his wife. I have seen several of such cases and the parents of the girl wins the case. There are rules in catholic church concerning mixed marriages- the man must agree to wed in catholic church,baptize and bring up all thier children in the catholic faith etc In this case,there is no marriage.And a genuine catholic shouldn't be having sex outside or before marriage.For this girl,may be it is a mistake. Denying him of the child.It is possible because they are not husband and wife.But if you doubt,take it up legally.But I assure you the girl will always win since she is not a wife to anybody. Being a catholic, is it not the best thing to happen to anybody? I guess it is.

true or not , it is MANIPULATION..but it really sounds like she is using the church to get her way, NOT GOD'S.

hey there. i was raised catholic, theyre self righteous but there is nothing saying to withold a baby from its father, concieved in wedlock or not, outside of catholicism or not. she is being horrible and your son has rights to the child. he can request a dna test once the babe is born which will prove hes the daddy. catholics might be self righteous but thyere not heathens. its not like they would want a baby not to have its dad.

I agree with everyone else's answers so far. I am a practicing Catholic and this is simply not true. She is using her religion as an excuse to keep the child from his father, for whatever reason. The church does not teach this at all. If she were a true Catholic, she would not have been having "relations" outside of wedlock. I bet she doesn't even go to church. In response to what some others have said about the sacrament of marriage in the Catholic Church, at least one person must be Carholic to be married in the church. The 6 month class preparation is a requirement for all, regardless of whether you are Catholic or not.

Did anyone remind her that the Catholic church also frowns on fornication?? And no priest/reverend/other in good standing with God/Buddha/Jehovah/etc would advocate or condone cutting a willing, UN-absive father from a child's life because he doesn't "convert" to one religion or another. She's full of crap and may have joined a cult. either that or she's trying trick your son into marrying her & using the church to try to make that happen.

that's a load of crap [pardon the language] i was raised in the church and while it's not my religion i know darned well that the church does not support such self righteous manipulative family breaking ideas. the catholic church doesn't even support premarital sex, so i have no idea what she's thinking as far as raising the child, if she's really the catholic she claims to be [aside from the out of wedlock part] then i think the "rule" is that the baby should be raised catholic. however i had friends who didn't become catholic while they did have a catholic mother. ultimately it's up to BOTH the parents [and i hope your son works the case out well, but just so you know she's pulling this lie out of her behind]

Law not church.....what is the law. If she denies the law he can get custody, it's not the 12th century or even 1950 it's 2008!!

Why does this same Question, WORD FOR WORD, come up every couple months??? John

It is not true. The Church cannot deny him the right to see his child, only the Courts can do that. The Catholic Church asks if a couple, one who is not Catholic wish to marry in the church that the non catholic will agree to the child baptised a Catholic. They have no control over the laws of the State or any Court in the country.

I love it when people do things that aren't really in check with religion...and afterwards decide to make it a point of being a devout religious citizen. This girl has no business denying a father access to his child. A church cannot force a child to stay away from its parent, because the church has no say in the legalities of law. The Catholic church is not going to deny him access, and neithier should the female. Your son needs to take her ass to court and get joint custody, and expect your son'd wages to be garnished for the next 18 years of his life. Sorry you have to be put through shit like this, but hopefully your son will use a condom the next time he hooks up.

I guess the pre-marital sex is not a big issue with the Catholic church either?

I think birth control should be more important than being a nice Catholic girl.Sounds like she is a controling person .I'd tell here to go to hell,and bring the kid with her.lol

In the catholic church, they won't be upset that this child was conceived out of wedlock. It is frowned upon if there was birth control which was not the case.

No. The Church does not teach that a father should be denied a chance to be with his children simply because he is not Catholic. You can access the entire teachings of the Roman Catholic Church online. Simple type in "Catechism Catholic" in any search engine. Use the index to make it easier to find your topics. I find it sad that a girl who clearly does not obey her Church's teachings about chastity would use that Church as a weapon against someone. This is the kind of nonsense that gives ALL religions a bad name.

hahahhhah bullsh*t. Honestly though, I can't stand religious zealots. If someone has a child out of wedlock, God meant it that way so therefore it's not bad.

Who cares what a church says.. The law will ensure that he has access to his child. Not suprised that a fully programmed catholic would think this way. They used to kill people who refused to convert...go figure...

No this is absolutely not true. This is no longer the middle ages. The Church has come a long way since that was the case. She maybe should have spent a little more time paying attention while she was in church. I would suggest a reading of the Catechism would be a good idea for her to get her facts straight. Besides custody matters are a legal matter outside the influence of the church. Perhaps her lawyer could teach her that also. Or maybe the Father's lawyer could assist her in some clarification on that issue also.

Indeed, she has no legal basis to deny him seeing the child. But, I would not be surprised that priests have advised such crap to her. A friend of mine was asked to interview a bishop (who later became a Cardinal) in order to convince her sign a declaration about her own "immorality" (disguised in a typical catholic jargon) so her husband (latter caught smuggling drugs) could apply for marriage annulment!

Oh, bruther, the whole lot is gonna burn in hell how...he he...Aaaah, the wonders of religion that can drive an unsurpassable wedge between husband and wife, mother and child, dog and cat

I have never heard this. The Catholic church would prefer a child be raised Catholic, of course, but they would never suggest keeping a child from their father. I won't say this person is lying, but they may have interpreted something incorrectly.

No She is Wrong!!! get a lawyer and contact her parish Priest about the matter. Don't let her miss represent the Church; the Priest will be more than willing to talk to the young lady about her heretical view.

You can bet your bottom dollar its her parents behind it. There is nothing more hypocritical than a bible thumping catholic, I can say that as I am catholic.

Well, I'd like to thank you all for your answers. I now have a 7 1/2 mo. old grandson whom I cannot see. My son has taken her to Family Court and recieved visitation one day a week, however, she denies him at the door and calls the police every time he comes. He has shown the police his court order and they refuse to enforce it saying that he is infringing on HER rights. When speaking to the police, they stated to me that if they had to enforce every court order then they would be running constantly every time a child is late coming home from the other parents'. I'm not sure where my son's rights fit in here. I was told by the police that my son would have to take her back to court and get a police enforced order which could drag on for months and years. (I always assumed that any Court Order was automatically police enforced but I guess I was wrong.) The child's other grandmother has apologized to my son for her husband's and daughter's behaviour, she has left her husband some time ago for his extreme religious behaviour. Being Catholic, she is still married to him but doesn't wish to be living with him. Their many children have stayed with their father and under his influence. We have left contact info with her in the event that the child wishes to contact us he will be able to easily find us. That's not to say that we have given up by any means. We will continue to pursue this at Family Court however long it takes. I wish that we had Grandparent laws in Canada. In the meantime, we have not even a picture of this precious little baby, but the other Grandmother has filled my son in. I guess he is the spitting image of my son and very smart :) As far as her church, it is my understanding that the girl's father has decided that he is much more informed than his priest so he stopped going to that church. The priest did tell me that he would speak to the family about this issue, I am guessing that the man didn't like what his priest had to say.

Aaaah, the wonders of religion...driving a wedge between people like nothing else can

Regardless of what her church may preach, the law does not permit her to deny the child to its father. Your son may have to get a paternity test in order to ensure his rights as the father, but really the church has nothing whatsoever to do with this. The church has NO CIVIL AUTHORITY. This girl seems rather hypocritical - I'm sure your son must have pointed out that her religious beliefs weren't so terribly important when they conceived the child in the first place, so why the hue and cry now?

Her church doesn't teach and support pre-marital sex or out of wedlock babies. It certainly doesn't support using children for religious extortion either. The law doesn't look very kindly on it either. Your son can make a good case for full custody in a case like this.

My husband is Catholic and I am not. The church has nothing to do with this. Seems this girl is trying to use the child to control your son, he shouldn't let her get away with that. Her religion wasn't so important when the child was created after all.

Check the girlfriend's baptisimal papers...particularly if she wears a burka. There's a lot of terrorists working under cover out there!

It really doesn't matter what the church may or may not say--and I doubt that this is the church's position--what matters in the USA is what the law says.

Another instance where I am glad I am not catholic! They have some of he weirdest pagan notions! Never base your desires or occurances on the doctrins of ANY church; they are generally out of line with the Bible and what it actually says! I learned some time ago to forget what churches say as far as their rules and regulations they are usually slanted to what they want their people to think! I am a Christian but I no longer listen to ANY church dogma or laws but what the Bible ONLY says! What this girl is saying is a full of it as a Thanksgiving turkey and to quit believing the lies of a church catholic or other church!

NO, Catholics usually have to bring up their children Catholics but as for who they marry and wed they have no right to enforce their views on others. This sounds like blackmail and is illegal

If your son wants to be a father to his child, and the mother refuses to co-operate, he has recourse to the courts. He can sue for visitation rights and accompany this with actual support money and do all the things a father should do. The Catholic church will try to intimidate the non-catholic parent into thinking that the child MUST be raised catholic or else the non-catholic parent has no rights to the child. They will even try to make the non-catholic sign a paper agreeing to raise the child catholic. But that is a surrender of your first amendment rights and has no legal force even if they tell you it does. These historic attempts to deny non-catholics the right to their children are not enforceable in the United States. If your son loves his child he might have a fight on his hands, but if he wants to be the father God intends him to be, he will do it. Surrendering his conscience to a religion he doesn't believe in would be a coward's way out. Only Jesus Saves.

Government trumps religion PERIOD! mostly because the Bible says to obey the laws of the land.

The Catholic church has always claimed the right to raise all children who have one catholic parent, and have required the non-catholic parent to sign a paper agreeing to it in order to get married. These agreements are not enforceable by law. But it still tends to intimidate the non-catholic partner. Tell your son to get visitation rights by law.

Its not in any Catholic canon. Her threat is enough for you to seize a judge and act within the law and guard your custodial rights. This woman could easily abductthe child never to be seen by your family again. This is conduct consistent of kidnappers. On the moral note. She is equally to blame for even allowing herself to get pregnant with a non-catholic in indeed her standards were such. RED FLAG. This woman blames everyone for whats wrong in her life. She fits the parental abductor profile.

no it is not true. Yes the Catholic Church looks down upon conceiving a child out of wedlock but by no means does the Catholic Church teach that a Catholic parent must keep their children away from a non-Catholic parent. It may be the girl's parents who have told her falsely that that is what the Catholic Church teaches but in no way is it true.

Teciniclay under law of the land in settling this, no she can not deny the clam. sounds like she is taking avantate of you not being Catholic. Amish belive that, Catholics belive we are all brothers and sisters no matter what. And after Christanty became legle the truth is according to custiom practie before the middle ages, and during the breakup of the roman empre if the child is a boy than he should be raised in the fathers relgion and if the child is a girl she is to be raised in the mother's relgion. Overall they both have equal custudy to the child. Expeclly US Catholics who's cardals teach freedom of relgion to the fullest.

she neglected the other and uphold the other. be true. if the church of catholic teaches and support this, he would have not become her boyfriend.

Catholics frown upon having kids before marriage but nothing about the husband can not see the child without becoming catholic, he would have to become catholic to marry her but thats it.

1) Whatever the position of the Church, except maybe if you are living in the Vatican State, civil law applies, not religious law. If the partner is a baptized Christian, the marriage can be permitted by the Church. A marriage with a non baptized Christian or a non Christian is considered invalid by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church *discourages* such marriages. At a time, "Civil law in the Papal States did not permit baptized Christians to be raised by non-Christians". 2) "Some Christian Churches forbid interfaith marriage, drawing from 2 Corinthians 6:14, and in some cases Deuteronomy 7:3. Many Christians believe that anyone has the freedom to choose her or his partner for life, and that love has no boundaries. This attitude is found most often among those who may be identified as progressive or liberal Christians. It is supported by 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 with the central sentence: "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband." Inter-Church Marriages: The Catholic church requires permission for mixed marriages, which it terms all unions between Catholics and baptized non-Catholics (Eastern Orthodox and many Protestants), but such marriages are valid, though illicit, without it: the pastor of the Catholic party has authority to grant such permission. The distinction between baptized and unbaptized arises because the Catholic church recognizes all young children who are validly baptized, even in a Protestant denomination, to be Catholic until they consciously apostasize. The baptized non-Catholic partner does not have to convert. Historically, the baptized non-Catholic partner had to agree to raise the children Catholic, but under current rules only the Catholic spouse must promise to do so. Inter-religious marriages: The Church has often discouraged marriages with Muslims and Jews, due to the fact that it is sometimes difficult to raise children in the faith after a marriage, especially if the woman is Catholic. Marriages between a Catholic and an unbaptized person are not sacramental, and fall under the impediment of disparity of worship and are invalid without a dispensation, for which authority lies with the bishop ordinary of the place of marriage. In addition, the Catholic Church recognizes the Pauline privilege, wherein a Catholic may marry an unbaptized previously married person who consents to convert." Source and further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfaith_marriage_and_Christianity 3) "Edgardo Mortara (August 27, 1851 – March 11, 1940) was a Jewish boy who became the center of an international controversy when he was seized from his Jewish parents by authorities of the Papal States and taken to be raised as a Catholic. The seizure of the boy followed his emergency baptism by a domestic servant during a serious infantile illness. Civil law in the Papal States did not permit baptized Christians to be raised by non-Christians. Pope Pius IX, who had partially emancipated the Jews living in the Papal States, found himself in a quandary. The Mortara case was the catalyst for far-reaching political changes, and its repercussions are still being felt within the Catholic Church and in relations between the Church and some Jewish organizations. Mortara was raised as a Catholic and remained one for the rest of his life." Source and further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgardo_Mortara 4) "Many new Halachic questions came up during the Holocaust. Among them was the question if Jewish parents should hand over their children to Christian families or give them into convents. Most Jewish religious families, however, never thought about giving their children away to Christians. Especially the Catholic convents in Eastern Europe didn't accept Jewish children just out of love; the nuns had a firm agenda which was doing the best to convert Jewish children to Christianity. Extreme Christians call this "saving souls in order to bring about the second coming of their false Meshiach J.C." Already after the few days at the convent, Jewish children were systematically baptised. Wasn't it enough that the Nazis did "their best" to exterminate the Jewish people ? Now also the church came up with its plan not only to destroy Jewish lives but also Jewish souls." "After the war, on 10th February 1946, Rabbi Herzog met Pope Pius XII. and asked him to instruct his follower to return Jewish children from Catholic convents. The appeal was in vain and from an estimated 5000 Jewish children, only half was returned. And half of the children were mostly not returned because the convents were willing to do so. Instead, different Rabbis went from convent to convent and found out by themselves, which one of the children was Jewish. Many convents denied having accepted Jewish children. It needs to be mentioned that there were definitely some Christian families who did mean well and not everyone was so fanatically into this idea of missionizing helpless Jewish children and, thus exploiting the war time situation. However, Catholicism used to be extremely important and influential in Eastern Europe in those days and especially convents followed the church rules. Rules whose goal ii is to missionize all Jews to Christianity. The same rules existed in the Middle Ages and the same rules exist today when fanatic Christians come to Jerusalem in order to missionize or Evangelists preach their "Freedom for Jerusalem". There is no difference and the churches haven't changed." Source and further information: http://shearim.blogspot.com/2008/09/stealing-jewish-children-during.html

Kinda reminds me from back in my earlier years, when a Catholic girl got pregnant out of wedlock and asked why she didn't make sure the guy wore a condom. Her answer was always "Oh, the Church says it's a sin to wear a rubber!" Like screwin' before you get married was, like, OK with the Church?!? Call me dumb, but I STILL don't get that "logic"!

get a lawyer...i abhor men/ women who USE their children....for their selfishness...it is certainly not whats best for a child..they need both parents.... their is a law now in some states called "parent alienation"..designed to help a parent who is being alienated from their child...they have no right & it is Hurting the child but these kind are CONTROLING & JEALOUS & will use their child to get what they want & have no concern for their CHILDS WEE BEING..which should a parents 1 and only concern....HE has rights as the father...and ur grandchild need u and ur son....God Bless

This is a very troubling thing for her to say, and entirely off base. If they were to get married all she would need to do is get a dispensation to marry a non-catholic and he would have to agree to the children being raise catholic and educated in the faith. By no means can a person be coerced into conversion. Archbishop Vincent Concessao said it well just a few years ago."We affirm the official teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter, which says that, in spreading religious belief and in introducing religious practices, everybody must at all times avoid any action which seems to suggest coercion or dishonest or unworthy persuasion." Not only does the church condemn a coerced conversion but also even the appearance of such. His Grace goes on to say "If there is force then there’s no conversion." Furthermore, now given what she has said to your Son, she has now made any possible future marriage very difficult to validate. One of the justifications for receiving an annulment is "defect of consent". If either party to the marriage was forced into it in any way, then the marriage is invalid. Very often a priest will not even marry a couple if she is currently pregnant but instead wait for a while after the baby has arrived just so that it can be show that the choice was freely taken. However, given her statement, further steps might now have to be taken. Such as a legal agreement guaranteeing your son access to his child, even if the marriage never happens. Not all priests are so picky about marriage details however. If so, I would also speak contact the Bishop or the Judicial Vicar of the diocese concerning this situation. All that assumes that he would even want to marry her now, which, I am guessing is unlikely. While I am a strong advocate of marriage, even in less than perfect situations, I am not so sure I would suggest he do so here. If they do head that direction, they will both need a lot of counseling. She in particular sounds like she has control issues and honesty issues not to mention a poor understanding of her own faith.

Not exactly the best basis for becoming a worshipper of God... But not a bad effort to boost the overall number of Catholics in your area...the priest can boast to the Pope. There is a huge difference between being a Catholic and being a true worshipper of God.

Another hypocrite.

Churches differ from congregation to congregation. But know what? The state trumps the church.

She's just being a cunt and using religion as her banner. What a slut.

She does not have a leg to stand on,as for getting herself pregnant she had equal responsibility,for her actions, what is her next defense "the devil made her do it".Arguing over religion,are the least of their worries, making sure the child is loved and taking care of formost.Why do people always argue over religion, that their faith is better than someone else's.anyways sheesh...

I'm a "Roman" Catholic (the strictest kind). The answer is "No" ! The Catholic church does NOT support this mentality; any more than they support having children OUT OF WEDLOCK ! She sounds like she DOESN'T have her "priorities" straight and she's making her own rules up along the way!

On one level or another I do agree with what has been posted, and I hope you will see where as I explain. 1st no one should have sex before thier married to aviod this type of situation.(Though they know this they do it anyway not condoning just saying). 2nd Know as far as the changeing of religion well first of all catholics do not impede on others free will nor do they judge, the verse "do not judge less thee be judged" ring a bell. (It can be noble to bring someone to the church if done properly but this is not the way). 3rd it is the legal right of the father as long as thier are no mitigating curcuimstances for the father to see the child any lawyer will tell you this, and religion is not one of those curcuimstances. Here is what I would suggest inform her of the verse that I have quoted and say that she should really go back and think is this really what a preist would agree with, answer is no not at all, then if she persists tell her that he has legal rights as a parent and if she impedes on them you as a grand parent and him as the father can press charges they will find in your favor, or should! (P.S.= I hope this does not deter you from at least check the religion out if thats what your were planing it has a lot to offer. Just saying, good luck.)

She has proven one thing, Catholics are christans. If you dought it this girl proves we even have evangelists like the girl in the question. This is not a serous answer. To the queston is NO we belive that a child has a father and a mother.

That is not true,the Catholic Church do teaches about concieveing out of wedlock.

Yes, the RCC teaches that it is OK for a Catholic to marry/ be boyfriend-girlfriend with a non-catholic as long as the children are raised catholic. I suppose your son would not want his child being raised catholic since he isn't 1. Therefore the only way to ensure the child will be raised catholic in this case is for him to convert. So, I guess so, yeah.

It's not up to her or the church, we have this thing called Family Court decisions.

why would she deny him of his seed when there was no problem recieving his seed out of wedlock. wow! if we could only use our own minds. if the church supports this, DIVISION , its not good. catholic are non-catholic he's still the same man she slept with.

she obviously doesn't follow the Cristian way. but she does not have the power to deny him as a father and the catholic church is the most corrupt religion there is.tell her to go to hell and get a lawyer or just go to the courts and sign some paternity papers. but if he is worried about becoming catholic cause it may cramp his style tell him to relax, Catholics dont do anything but just have a title. TELL HER THE CRISTIAN WAY IS TO BE MARRIED NOT A FLIPPIN CATHOLIC

This is a very old-fashioned idea of Catholisim. It holds no legal water which is what your son should really be concerned with. She can't deny him his child just because of his religious choice. She is trying to trap him and force him to do something he doesn't want to do. Remind her that this is not God's way. He doesn't want slaves or robots. He wants people to accept Him and love Him by their own choosing and way. He leads, He doesn't push. She has no business doing this to your son. She also has no business having pre-marital sex if she is a true Bible thumping Catholic as she is all of a sudden claiming to be. I'm Catholic (non practicing but still knowledgeable) and that's my honest opinion. P.S.- What a bitch!

No, the Church does not teach that. It does teach that sex before marriage is sinful though.

Not true, and the law doesn't care what religion either of them is. He has legal parental rights.