Spanking is acceptable but that is the limit. And by spanking I mean a slap on the butt, not a beating. I also find a pinch on the upper arm effective on occasion.

I don't think so, no. Just because a child is small does not mean that using physical force to discipline them is acceptable. I would not slap or hit an adult I was annoyed at or that was misbehaving - why would I then turn around and slap or hit my child? There are plenty of methods - aside from physical force - that work and teach children about discipline. I think that some parents that use physical force to punish their children simply do so due to frustration and lack of control of the situation. If the adult can not control themselves and hits their child, what is that teaching the child?

it all depends on what type of physical force your talking about, and how much force??? i was smacked with a wooden spoon when i was younger, and it taught me right from wrong very quickly, it also depends on how old they are, if they are old enough to know that they are doing the wrong thing a smack on the bum is nothing. not the wooden spoon, noooooooooo!!! =D

I'm just going to copy and paste my answer from a simliar question: Personally, I'm all for a good spanking every now and then. Downrate me at will, please. But I have very few rules that I consider very important, like not lying or stealing, and those will most certainly earn a spanking from me, although it is rare that rules like those are disobeyed. It is important to me to not spank for every little thing and show my children by the gravity of my response that there are a few things that truly deserve a punishment like a spanking. Also, if I find that I am angry I will send my child to their room and calm down before giving out a spanking, and lastly, it is also important to me to explain why my child is being punished and why what they did was not acceptable in our society and in our home.

NEVER physical force is more than a smack on the butt. It's abuse. I also think that the only people who should be able to spank are the primary caregivers. Woe the teacher or babysister who ever puts a hand on my child. (When I have one) :) Edit: Also imho I believe that spanking should only be on the child's bottom, in private, and only using the parent's open hand.

No....physical violence is NEVER ok.....you demean and belittle your child that way, it destroys the trust and respect they have for you and replaces it with fear and hate.....never use violence as a means to get your way. You are the adult....act like one by comunicating with your voice, not your fists. Mandy

Gtravels, First of all I don't mean that you should hit a child till they are black and blue. I know that when I got hit (which was rare) I cried more out of anger than pain. I don't believe that spanking should be used for every problem or for every child. I say open hand b/c unfortunatly their are people who would punch a child. I say only your hand because if spanking your child hurts your hand you are spanking too hard. If a parent can discipline their child w/o ever spanking I see nothing wrong with that as long as they find some other way of disciplining their child. (Not giving your children any discipline in life is as abusive as physicallly abusing them. You are not your child's friend you are their parent) However I also see nothing wrong with spanking a child as a last resort. You don't live with that family 24 hours a day. You don't know if that child has behavior problems which don't respond to the same tatics as other children. I am NOT condoning abuse. And I don't think that anyone should ever hit their child to get back at them or out of anger. Of course there are other ways to discipline children but there are some cases where a quick smack on the bottom is an acceptable response.

No it is not. Please see my answer in the comment thread [Link: http://tinyurl.com/2roqyc] I have reproduced below (with improved formatting). [NOTE: There are also some comments worth reading under this answer: http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/865501] Answer by Lyndzdog: it all depends on what type of physical force your talking about, and how much force??? i was smacked with a wooden spoon when i was younger, and it taught me right from wrong very quickly, it also depends on how old they are, if they are old enough to know that they are doing the wrong thing a smack on the bum is nothing. not the wooden spoon, noooooooooo!!! =D Morgenstern: lol my husband got the wooden spoon too - he says once his mother was so mad she pulled it right out of a pot of spaghetti sauce and got sauce all over the wall and it looked like a blood bath hehe :o) idne aka AKGoTE2: lmbo Lindzdog: hahaha, yes i remember my mum getting so angry and doing things like that and her saying "dont make me get the wooden spoon!!!" nevets: That's sick. Morgenstern: nevets, I belive you've just insulted at least two people's parents with your comment. idne aka AKGoTE2: Don't hold it against him he's fairly young and probably doesn't have kids. lol nevets: @Morgenstern: Did I personally attack anyone? No. I simply commented on the fact that this: "dont make me get the wooden spoon!!!" is disgusting. Lindzdog: please explain in what way is that phrase disgusting? nevets: What you are describing is nothing more than physical abuse, I don't get why it's so funny to strike a defenseless child with a kitchen utensil. It is not necessary and should not be condoned. I suggest you read PrettyPirate and Mandydl's answers. Morgenstern: I think that this is something people are unable to form good opinions on until they have children, once someone has children and has the same opinion am I more likely to have this conversation with them. If you read my answer, I think you'll get a good grasp of what I do and think personally, and it is not physical abuse but rather guidance tempered by love and hope for my children's future. nevets: @Morgenstern: I have a good grasp of what you think, you condone bullying tactics to get your way. I feel very sorry for your children. It does not matter what your motives are, your method is flawed. I have direct experience that hitting is not a necessary way to get your point across: my parents. I am perfectly able to form my own valid opinion even without direct experience. I don't have to have been in the Holocaust to know it was wrong. To suggest that my view has no value because I have no children is condescending. Guidance does not have to involve striking a defenseless human being. Hitting is not about the child, it is about the frustration of the parent. http://tinyurl.com/3ayjk7 FYI, you hit your children - that is physical abuse: "Physical abuse includes hitting, shaking, kicking, punching, scalding, suffocating and other ways of inflicting pain or injury to a child. [...] The NSPCC believes that hitting children is wrong whatever the circumstances. It is emotionally and physically harmful and sets a bad example to children. What's more, it isn't even a very effective way of encouraging better behaviour. The NSPCC has a range of advice on managing children's behaviour without smacking." - http://www.nspcc.org.uk/.../...use_wda33606.html Do you think you know better than the NSPCC? "The government is under pressure from a powerful anti-spanking lobby to outlaw all forms of physical punishment. The Children Are Unbeatable! alliance - which consists of 350 organizations, including the prestigious National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) - maintains 'There is nothing good or healthy or loving or safe about deliberately hurting children.'" # http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0419/p09s02-coop.html "Teach your children how to respond appropriately when others use insults or threats or deal with anger by hitting. Explain to your children that these are not appropriate behaviors, and encourage them to avoid other children who behave that way." # http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php While you are at it: # http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp PrettyPirate: I have worked extensively with children and young adults, as a live-in Nanny that literally raised 3 girls and as a Teacher Aide, working with students who have behavioral and learning problems. Does that mean that my opinion that physically striking a child to "teach them" how to "behave" is worthless and invalid because I don't have children of my own? No, it doesn't. Becoming a parent does not automatically make your opinions in regards to parenting better or more valid than anyone else's. Striking or spanking is a last resort for a parent who can no longer control the situation. Purely my "worthless" opinion. idne aka AKGoTE2: nevets, I disagree that spanking a child is abuse. I spank my child and he is an extremely well behaved, emotionally healthy, happy child. There are just as many articles and research that support spanking as a form of discipline. We are not talking about beating a child. I realize you have knowledge of this research articles and you were personally raised by parents but it really is different when you, yourself, become a parent. I don't think Morgen was trying to imply anything by saying that nor was I. You obviously feel very strongly about this issue. My brother never spanks his daughter and she is well behaved. It is the individual child that makes a difference. Some children are more pliant and others are very strong willed. All punishment isn't appropriate for all children. My older brother was spanked a lot, I hardly ever needed it. It really depends on the personality of the child. nevets: IDNE wrote: "I disagree that spanking a child is abuse." The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children are very clear about the definition of physical abuse. What you are describing counts is physical abuse. See comment above. IDNE wrote: "There are just as many articles and research that support spanking as a form of discipline." Please can you provide these research papers? The sources I have linked to so far include: # National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse # National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children # The American Psychological Association # DrSears: "We are William Sears, MD and Martha Sears, RN. Most folks just call us Dr. Bill and Martha. After raising eight children and practicing pediatric medicine for more than 30 years, we have answered questions from thousands of parents. Millions more have sought our advice through our 30+ pediatric books, articles in parenting magazines, and our appearances on more than 100 television programs." I think what you have forgotten is that a child is a human being. If you were annoying me or wouldn't do something I had asked you to do, or was making too much noise, would I go up to you and smack you or slap you or hit you with a wooden spoon and yell at you to shut up? No. So why would that be okay to do to your OWN child? Acting like this shows a total lack of respect for the child. Its treating your children like they are simply possessions that you own. Children are not extensions of yourself, they are individual people with their own feelings and emotions. If a child is strong willed, so what? If they are behaving in a way that is a danger to themselves or other people, TALK to them about what is going on. Use time-outs or send them to a designated room with very little stimulation, or get them to write down what they were feeling if they can, don't just hit them. IDNE wrote: "Don't hold it against him he's fairly young and probably doesn't have kids. lol" AND "I realize you have knowledge of this research articles and you were personally raised by parents but it really is different when you, yourself, become a parent." At what point can I expect you to drop your condescending tone? [Update 1] idne aka AKGoTE2: I gotta go for now but I will reply when I get back. nevets: I am down-rating this answer because it is condoning the physical abuse of a child according to the NSPCC and numerous other sources. http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/861371 idne aka AKGoTE2: nevets, I really didn't mean to be condescending to you at all and I think you know that. nevets: I think I know that you didn't mean it. :-) Even if you didn't mean it you were being condescending though. idne aka AKGoTE2: These are the guidelines that I use to spank my child. http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000507.html I apologize if I offended you by my comments. I still will continue to raise my child as I see fit. You feel free to raise your children as you see fit. Morgenstern: nevets - I wasn't trying to say that your opinion was flawed because you had no children; rather I was stating that in order to have a complete opinon it is necessary to have viewed something like this from both sides. I also have read a great deal of research about striking children and your implication that I do so because they annoy me or when they make too much noise is incorrect. I have doled out very few spankings to my son in his lifetime and each time I felt that it was necessary because of the severity of his actions, and I took the time to explain what I was doing, what he had done, and what was the correct thing to do. I do not "just" hit him because he is misbehaving. Also, I appreciate your advice on time outs and have found that this works very well 99% of the time. I know several people who have raised healthy, polite children without spanking them, and I personally I commend them for their efforts and what is obviously a successful parenting method. However, I have found that what I am doing is what works for my son. Every child is different, and requires a different sort of punishment. For instance, I was an ungodly child and time-outs were a joke to me, stimilus or no, 10 minutes or 3 hours, it didn't matter to me. I am glad that my parents realized that this didn't work for me, and I am glad (now) that they did spank me. My sister was completely different and practically melted at the thought of a 5 minute time out, and this is what worked for her. Overall, I do believe that spankings are overused by many parents as a quick fix to a problem that needs a different sort of punishment. My son has been spanked less than 20 times in his life - and once was for getting out of time out repeatedly. I apologize if you found my comments demeaning, I am realize that it is possible to form an opinion of something from various positions but this is one topic in which I believe the best opinon is formed by true experience, and one without actual experience is simply incomplete, not necessarily wrong. I hope that you do have children, and if you raise them well without spankings I will be the first to congratulate you. As an afterthought, I'd like to point out that time outs and speaking to a child are sometimes ineffective because of the child's age. I simply have a hard time believing that a heartfelt explanation about why electrical sockets are dangerous and time out would be an effective way of stopping a one year old child from playing with them. By slapping the child's hand or bottom, and saying "no" while pointing at the outlet, they instantly associate the outlet with danger and punishment and are very unlikely to go near it again. Frankly, if that is abuse, I'd rather "abuse" my children than have them electrocted. This is just one example; I won't go on forever but there are many situations where it has simply been the best option to phsycially punish my children. nevets: @IDNE wrote: "I still will continue to raise my child as I see fit. You feel free to raise your children as you see fit." Your techniques include spanking children, and I quote: "I also find a pinch on the upper arm effective on occasion." You hit and pinch your children. This is physical abuse and there are no two ways about it. ["Physical abuse includes hitting, shaking, kicking, punching, scalding, suffocating and other ways of inflicting pain or injury to a child." - NSPCC] You can bet that my parenting techniques will not live up to your "well researched" methods which just happen to contrast so completely with advice provided by the NSPCC and NCPCA. @IDNE wrote: "I apologize if I offended you by my comments." I like to accept apologies, but what exactly are you apologizing for? Are you apologizing because your attitude is extremely condescending? You are treating someone (me in this case) like they have no idea what they are talking about, like they are naive. Since that has not changed your apology seems to be a little hollow. :-/ What I have written is supported by renowned parenting experts, the APA, the NSPCC and the NCPCA for starters seems to fall on your deaf ears. If you like keep telling yourself that you can disregard what I have written because: "he's fairly young and probably doesn't have kids. lol" @Mordenstern wrote: "I have doled out very few spankings to my son in his lifetime and each time I felt that it was necessary because of the severity of his actions..." At the beginning of this comment thread you were laughing and joking about child abuse: "lol my husband got the wooden spoon too - he says once his mother was so mad she pulled it right out of a pot of spaghetti sauce and got sauce all over the wall and it looked like a blood bath hehe :o)". You treat child abuse as if it were a joke. It's not. @Mordenstern wrote: "I think that this is something people are unable to form good opinions on until they have children, once someone has children and has the same opinion am I [sic] more likely to have this conversation with them." AND "I wasn't trying to say that your opinion was flawed because you had no children; rather I was stating that in order to have a complete opinon [sic] it is necessary to have viewed something like this from both sides." AND "I apologize if you found my comments demeaning, I am [sic] realize that it is possible to form an opinion of something from various positions but this is one topic in which I believe the best opinon [sic] is formed by true experience, and one without actual experience is simply incomplete, not necessarily wrong." You just wrote that a) You were not saying my opinion was flawed but b) I can't have a complete opinion since I don't have children. That is contradictory, its also nonsense. The fact that I do not have children of my own does not make my opinion any less valuable or "complete", I have cited renowned parenting experts, the APA, the NSPCC and NCPCA. These people *are* parents and what's more, they know better than you do. By the way, what were you actually apologizing for? Morgenstern: I was apologizing because I didn't mean to belittle your opinion. I remember greatly disliking the way my parents told me I would understand when I have kids, and I didn't mean to sound like that. You opinion is marvelously well researched and you have many links to informative sites and I am sure your opinion is well-formed and informed. However, my stand is and will remain that this is an opinion that is best backed by actual experience. nevets: @Mordenstern wrote: "I appreciate your advice on time outs..." Here's hoping that your kids get a break from the physical abuse. @Mordenstern wrote: "I know several people who have raised healthy, polite children without spanking them." Well, what do you know?! @Modernstern wrote: "I simply have a hard time believing that a heartfelt explanation about why electrical sockets are dangerous and time out would be an effective way of stopping a one year old child from playing with them." You don't beat a 1 year old child if they reach for an electrical plug, you install safety plugs. Did you even read the links I provided? Here is the link again, it specifically comments on what you mentioned: Hitting a child's hands. [Link: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp ] Morgenstern: nevets I am going to end this conversation with you because despite my best attempts to remain polite it seems you are unable to do so in return. nevets: @Modernstern wrote: "However, my stand is and will remain that this is an opinion that is best backed by actual experience." I appreciate your apology but it seems a bit hollow when you follow it up by stating my opinion is not valuable since I have no children (aka. "actual experience"). Another thing that gets me is the fact that the sources I have linked to are run my adults - parents... yet you still feel able to disregard what *they* have written because I don't have kids and the links came from me. @Morgenstern wrote: "nevets I am going to end this conversation with you because despite by best attempts to remain polite it seems you are unable to do so in return." I have not been rude to you, I am stating facts. According to the NSPCC hitting a child is physical abuse. In black and white terms that means that you are supporting child abuse. By your own admission if a 1 year old baby reached towards a plug you would hit them, not install safety plugs. What can I say? Do whatever eases your conscience for the next time you physically abuse your children. I think what it comes down to is this again: Do you think you know better than the NSPCC? [Update 2] idne aka AKGoTE2: We certainly know our children better than they do. nevets: You know your children better than the NSPCC? Sure. pasobrio aka AKGE: Hey. Nevets, I've delt with our verson due to false charges from my ex-husband. The two from Canton plus the parenting couclers all agreed with spanking. The last one I had to talk to didn't know her bum from the chair. The sad thing is the last one ws the norm around here. They haven't got a clue. All they know about parenting comes from books and guidlines. And, no, they don't know your kid better then you do. I've seen them take children from perfectly good households on false charges (not me). While leaving the abused ones to suffer even more abuse. They just give those parents parenting classes. And then give statements as to how they never saw any abuse when they kid winds up dead. [Update 3] nevets: Large organizations like the NSPCC make errors - nothing is perfect - but the NSPCC knows a good deal about child care. Your [unnamed] sources are bunk, yet you are trying to suggest that the NSPCC doesn't have a clue! The sources I have listed so far include organizations dedicated to child care to renowned authors on parenting. The quote I provided from the APA was also especially interesting for me: "Teach your children how to respond appropriately when others use insults or threats or deal with anger by hitting. Explain to your children that these are not appropriate behaviors, and encourage them to avoid other children who behave that way." The NSPCC know about child abuse, they are an authority unlike some random Christian website that talks about "What specific Scripture verses do you base your view of discipline on?" [Link: http://tinyurl.com/b9a3a] to "Does the spanking approach fail with some children?" or your [unnamed] "parenting councilors". I find it quite disgusting that you are supporting child abuse. Make no mistake, that is what it is. This thread started with people joking about hitting children with kitchen utensils and it has ended in someone suggesting they would hit a 1 year old. But of course, I don't have kids yet, so everything I have written here is worthless and "incomplete". I know what: lets completely disregard what these organizations have to say and start treating children like your broodmares treat their young: "I'm talking biting and kicking dead on." How would you like that? @Pasobrio wrote: "Child psychology is not much different because I can take what I use on my horses and use it on my children and get the same results." You are so wrong, and I am so sorry for your children. pasobrio aka AKGE: And you have just shown no understanding of pychology of either horses or children. Horses have the exact same cognigtive abilities as humans. They are born with the reasoning skills of a two year old child. That's why imprint training works so well. And they develope to about the level of a five year old at maturity. But since you don't work with horses you wouldn't know that. And I don't beat my horses. It solves nothing. But a smalll smack equvialnt to the nip their mother gives on the shoulder or rump coupled with "no" or "hey" in a deep voice works very well. And I have found the same works for my children. By the way I got the idea from Monty Roberts, he not only works with troubled horses, but troubled children as well. He uses his join-up method on both with great sucess. You should read it sometime when you get done starting fights. Very interesting insights into not only animal, but also human behaviour. As for my unnamed sourses they are the Child and Welfare Services of Canton, Ohio and the Goodwill Industries of Canton, Ohio. And I will always contend that the broodmare knows more about raising babies then most social workers. They are woefully under trained with little understanding of the real world. In fact it one of the easiest degrees to get. And they don'y have to continue their educations. They just follow the guidlines in a book. nevets: Horses are not humans, modeling horses as examples of how to look after your children is so nonsensical I wouldn't know where to begin. @Pasobrio wrote: "And I will always contend that the broodmare knows more about raising babies then most social workers." Translation: According to you a horse that bites and kicks it's young is a model example for how humans should raise children. Nice. As for your unnamed sources, you still haven't substantiated them with anything. Link me to your Monty Roberts and I will check out his credentials. Regardless, his voice is insignificant compared to the NSPCC. pasobrio aka AKGE: By the way thanks for taking everyone's comments out of context. Real easy to prove your point that way as you pick and chose your way without really making your case. If anything you just made us more crediable. Here's what I meant about "kicking and biting dead on" they don't wait till things have spiraled out of control to put limits on their foals. They act quickly and efficently to stop the innapropreate behavour. Yes, it is with bites and kicks, but they act in the same way a parent who spanks does. They only land the shot where the only thing realy hurt is the pride. And for all of their power the foal never bears a mark. And don't pity my children, unlike my brother who bore very little physical punishment for his actions they will grow up knowing right from wrong. and not be living all drugged up in a homeless shelter. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what information anyone gives you you will say we're full of it. I named my sources. Sorry if you can't look them up on the web. And once again if you knew anything about animal pschology you would see the link. But you don't. I do and I hve see very strong paralles because I am open to them. Unlike you who are very closed minded. And I don't keep links. You want to debunk him the go look it up yourself. Since he's only one of the most respected trainers in the country that shouldn't be hard to do. Lindzdog: At the end of the day, it was a small smack on the bum, not a beating, physical abuse on children is wrong yes, but a smack on the bum is not. im glad i was smacked, it has done me no harm, if anything it has made me a better person... my parents did the right thing by them, and i have turned out fine. Morgenstern: @pasobrio - I enjoyed reading your comments. I too, have worked with animals and I understand where you are coming from. I am sure you don't take your horses or your children and beat them. I think this is how nevets pursues conversations when he has a strong feeling about something; I wouldn't take insult from it. Myself, and I am sure, many parents on this site and around the world are behind your actions as a parent and from your responses around the website about your situation I feel that I have a good grasp on how much you love your children. I am sure they are being raised in a loving and nurturing environment and that they will someday thank you for your parenting methods. Take care, of yourself and your children, and know that at the very least, you have my support. "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly." Proverbs 13:24 Darkling: I have known real abuse and a little smack with the intention of keeping the child from grave harm bears no resemblance. Lindzdog: Thats not a good thing to hear, i feel sorry for you, after learning about things that abuse can do, Thank You so much for your input! i appreciate it alot! nevets: [QUOTE] "And I will always contend that the broodmare knows more about raising babies then most social workers." Translation: According to you a horse that bites and kicks it's young is a model example for how humans should raise children. Nice. [END QUOTE] @Pasobrio wrote: "By the way thanks for taking everyone's comments out of context. [...] Here's what I meant about "kicking and biting dead on" they don't wait till things have spiraled out of control to put limits on their foals. They act quickly and efficiently to stop the inappropriate behavior. Yes, it is with bites and kicks, but they act in the same way a parent who spanks does." I don't think I took anything out of countext, and your new explanation shows that you are indeed suggesting that horses (which bite and kick their young) are a model example of ho[w] humans should raise children. @Pasobrio wrote: "They [horses -ed] only land the shot where the only thing realy hurt is the pride." We are talking about children here, and hitting children is counter intuitive. It does not teach effectively, it damages. @Pasobrio wrote: "And don't pity my children, unlike my brother who bore very little physical punishment for his actions they will grow up knowing right from wrong, and not be living all drugged up in a homeless shelter." If a parent needs to hit a child to teach them, what does that tell you about their parenting skills? It is possible to teach the difference between right and wrong without physically abusing a child. @Pasobrio wrote: "And once again if you knew anything about animal pschology you would see the link. But you don't. I do and I have see very strong parallels because I am open to them. Unlike you who are [sic] very closed minded." Your condescending attitude is still here, you attempt to suggest that the only reason I disagree with you is because I am mis-informed. [You -ed] don't have an inkling about what I do and do not know - and your self-claimed expertise is meaningless. Sure Horses have advanced cognitive abilities, but they are not human. They do not have the option to pick up a child and explain to them something is wrong. They don't have the option to send a foul to their room. Yet you are trying to justify your behavior by comparing humans to be beasts; going to animal trainers to support your view that hitting children is correct. @Pasobrio wrote: "I have come to the conclusion that no matter what information anyone gives you you will say we're full of it. [...] And I don't keep links. You want to debunk him the go look it up yourself." You have so far failed to provide a link to your sources. Its not my job to try to look for your sources: its your job to back up your statements. IDNE gave it a go and linked to a religious website, you have named a few names but not bothered to substantiate anything. The only person who has provided a credible source in this thread so far is... me. @Lindzdog wrote: "at the end of the day, it was a small smack on the bum, not a beating, physical abuse on children is wrong yes, but a smack on the bum is not. im glad i was smacked" This is false, unless you wish to retract everything you have previously written. Lets not forget the "wooden spoon" you were joking about. @Modernstern wrote: "I am sure you don't take your horses or your children and beat them." I made no comment about how pasobrio treats her horses, however it is clear to anyone that pasobrio does hit children. @Darkling wrote: I have known real abuse and a little smack with the intention of keeping the child from grave harm bears no resemblance. [Rhetorical question.] How hard does someone have to hit a child before you personally call it physical abuse? @Modernstern: I take it you didn't read the links I provided. Read reason #6. http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp Morgenstern: damn, I wish someone had spanked you as a child nevets. nevets: I am not sure how old you are Morgenstern, but if you tried my family or I would have made you regret it big time. This is extremely pointless though. Lets get back into reality, into today. Have you read the links I sent you yet? [Update 4] pasobrio aka AKGE: I'll give those links when you tell me how to make links to life experiances. Since that's what I base this on and not internet knowledge. And I have backed up my beleifes by giveing examples from my life. Book knowledge is a wounderful thing but it only gets you so far. I did mention what I do when I train my horses, the exact same thing I do when rearing my children. A small smack with a firm "NO" or "Hey". Just like their mothers did when they were foals. And to say that because horses and humans don't look alike we are not both mamals is to ignore every biology textbook out there. Humans are in fact listed as a higher primate. Oh, and all primates use the same discipline methods as horses. As for how hard a hit has to be here's the definition by Ohio law, if it leaves a mark or cuts the skin that is abuse. Or if it has no reason other then to create fear. Dicipline does not create fear. It's a learning experiance. Darkling: Lindzdog, I'm glad my comment added to the discussion, but there's no need to feel sorry for me. Bad things happen to everyone. It's what you do about it and how you let it affect you that matters. Nevets wrote "[Rhetorical question.] How hard does someone have to hit a child before you personally call it physical abuse?" It may be rhetorical, but I do have an answer. You can argue about the force of the blow but intent matters more to me. Hands were laid on me with the sole purpose of inflicting pain and enforcing total control. It had nothing to do with protecting me and everything to do with imposing someone else's will upon me. Smacking a child's hand away from a hot burner is worlds away from beating a child because of a bad day. nevets: [To Pasobrio] No need to waffle. If you don't have any links, just say you don't have any links. The fact is you can link to life experiences. People like Dr. Sears (with 8 children) have life experience and have published their experience in books and online. The sources I have linked to are authorities in child development. If you treat children like horses you are clearly not an expert in child development. @Pasobrio wrote: "And to say that because horses and humans don't look alike we are not both mamals is to ignore every biology textbook out there." I have not once (ZERO) times in this discussion commented on what horses look like, nor commented on the fact that both Horses and Humans are Mammals. Please don't put words in my mouth. I see this as a pointless angle to debate this issue since humans are not horses. *:Pictures a horse sitting down cross legged at nursery listing to story time.:* How long do you think it will take me to explain to you that yes humans are Primates, but we are not Lemurs? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur) Your entire argument so far is irrelevant. You are not a lemur or a horse and wouldn't expect to be treated like one. @Pasobrio wrote: "As for how hard a hit has to be here's the definition by Ohio law, if it leaves a mark or cuts the skin that is abuse. Or if it has no reason other then to create fear." So if someone repeatedly hit your child but there were no marks, would it be ok with you? It reminds me of a story of a bully who only punches people in the stomach so that there is no evidence. It probably makes you feel better if you hit a child but you can't see the physical marks. When you hit a child [on purpose] you are doing it in order to inflict pain. Here is something to bear in mind: definitions change from state to state. Rather than rely on something as fickle as Ohio law its far better to use a broader definition. "All States and territories provide definitions for physical abuse. The term is generally defined as any nonaccidental physical injury to the child, and can include striking, kicking, burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a physical impairment of the child." - http://www.childwelfare.gov/.../define.cfm I have also listed the definition for physical abuse from the NSPCC and copied recommendations against hitting a child from the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse. Hitting a child is not "discipline". At the top of this thread you laughed at the idea of a child being hit with a wooden spoon, you pinch your children to get your way, Morgenstern suggested hitting a 1 year old... your loud silence speaks volumes. [To Darkling] @Darkling wrote: "Smacking a child's hand away from a hot burner is worlds away from beating a child because of a bad day." Surely the child was unaware that the burner would hurt them, its a good sign that they are curious and they certainly did nothing wrong. If the adult tries to get the child's hand away from the burner as quickly as possible it could be understandable. If someone is hitting the child for reaching towards the burner "as discipline" it is not acceptable. They could just as easily hold their hand and gently pull them back and tell them its dangerous. In the Dr. Sears link they write: "Psychologists studied a group of sixteen fourteen-month-olds playing with their mothers. When one group of toddlers tried to grab a forbidden object, they received a slap on the hand; the other group of toddlers did not receive physical punishment. In follow-up studies of these children seven months later, the punished babies were found to be less skilled at exploring their environment. Better to separate the child from the object or supervise his exploration and leave little hands unhurt." Let's face it: those findings are not ground breaking - they are obvious. Smacking a childs hand will hinder their development. [For everyone.] A child is a free and independent person and it is your privilege and responsibility to guide them in this life. It is not your right to hit a child if they do not act the way you want them to. When you hit a child it has "nothing to do with protecting [them] and everything to do with imposing [your] will upon [them]." On this thread people have literally joked about hitting a child with kitchen utensil's, happily admitted that they pinch children as "discipline", recommended treating a child like a farm animal and even suggested hitting a 1 year old. This is not ok. Pinching and hitting children is simply not acceptable behavior. If you are not a farm animal but a responsible adult member of society then you should not be abusing children. Unfortunately this debate very quickly turned into an argument due to the disrespectful condescending attitude some people here have shown. I don't see this getting us anywhere soon, so I might give it up. Morgenstern: I don't think anyone holds your condescending attitude towards people with experience against you nevets. We're all very mature people with children of our own who understand how to let childish remarks slide off our backs. nevets: It just takes a quick look at the top of this thread to see where the condescending attitude is coming from. When you write something you should expect it to be read and picked apart. Whilst your attitude is mildly annoying, what offend[s] me is the notion that you would hit a curious 1 year old. Have you read the links I sent you? [Update 5] pasobrio aka AKGE: Let me give some insite to one and all about the group that Nevets is so fond of holding up as ashinning example of how to raise children. At one point in time said group was a very resonable group who's aim was to protect children. unfortunately at some point in time some very libral radicals took over the top spots. They are now an originzation bent on removing the rights of parents to discipline their children and have gone so far as to try and bully the U.N. into adapting their Children's Constatution as a pre-requsite for belonging. Their idology is that all forms of discipline is abuse. And all attempts to teach your children right from wrong is a violation of their free will. They list the discipline forms as such: spanking=physacal abuse, time outs and grounding= unlawfull imprissionment, taking a toy away=violation of the right to own personal property and the dinal of the righ to use such personal property, scolding=verbal abuse and going through a child's property even if you suspect drug abuse=violation of privacy. In short they want to remove any and all forms of dicipline from the parents. As well as control over our own homes and hand it right over to the children. Now does this sound like the kind of people we want telling us how to raise our children? A bunch of libral radicals that are using threats to get their own way? I think not. As for treating my children like farm animals I most certainly do not and it shows you missed the point of what I was trying to say because you are dead set to make us all look bad in order to feed your ego. Just like the orignizaion you cling to. As for the jokes, guess what, we all joke about all kinds of stuff that's part of human nature and it in no way shows that we abuse our children. And you can try to make how we discipline look bad all you want. In the end you just end up looking like an ass. And one of the big reasons why is your lack of personal experiance. One should not talk about those things they have not experianced themselves. You have not experianced parenthood and haven't got a wooden leg infested with termites to stand on. As for children having rights they sure do they have the right to live in a loving home, to be safe from danger and explotation, to be fed and to be clothed, to be educated, and to recive medical treatment. But this is as the parent, not the child or some faceless intety, sees fit. And that has always been the stance of the U.N. itself as well as the World Orginzation of Children and Amnisty Internationl. nevets: Pasobrio, where does the NSPCC say that taking away a toy from a child is "the denial of the right to use such personal property". When you make a claim (any claim) you have to actually support it with references, otherwise what you have written can be disregarded as dribble. I will write some more a bit later. :-) pasobrio aka AKGE: I read the Constatution they want to force us all to follow. They want to ban all forms of discipline as abuse or violations of a child's rights. Hell, to me and some one else who read this and woundered why you thought you had any reason to leave a comment since you are not a parent and have no dealings with children in an authourtive postion they sound like PETA. nevets: Link please. What constitution does the NSPCC have and where does it say they wish to "ban all forms of discipline as abuse or violations of a child's rights". Pasobrio wrote: "Hell, to me and some one else who read this and woundered why you thought you had any reason to leave a comment since you are not a parent and have no dealings with children in an authourtive postion..." You don't know about my dealings with children so you really should keep your speculations out of the debate. What you do know is that I do not have children of my own. Surely you are intelligent enough to realize arguing that since I don't have children my opinion is invalid is nothing more than an argumentum ad hominem. What I have written is supported, not by animal trainers, but by *experts* who do have children. Question: Would you hit any child or do you restrict yourself to hitting specific children? pasobrio aka AKGE: You should have seen it since you are so enamoured by them. And I do knwo about your dealings because you stated them earlier. And I have also read several diffrent parenting books. Plus I guess you missed the part about how Monty Roberts also takes in troubled children. And uses his join up method on both (The Horse Whisper is his auotobigraphy if you want to read it.) And in our family any adult can spank any child that they feel needs it. And the parent usally backs them up. We call it family parenting. And being a widow I need all the help I can get. nevets: ROFL Pasobrio. Until you can substantiate your claims they must be presumed false - which means your statements about the NSPCC are nothing more than libel. @Pasobrio wrote: "Any adult can spank any child that they feel needs it." You are painting a grim picture of your family. Let me clarify the question though: would your family feel comfortable hitting any child or just children that were born to your family? By the way, please can you show me where I have written about my work with children; I would like to review what was said. [Update 6] Darkling: Nevets wrote: "Surely the child was unaware that the burner would hurt them, its a good sign that they are curious and they certainly did nothing wrong. If the adult tries to get the child's hand away from the burner as quickly as possible it could be understandable." I think we're arguing facets of the same thing here. The situation I've been thinking about is that last minute save - tackling the kid that's one step away from traffic or is trying to french kiss an outlet. In my opinion, any action is acceptable in that circumstance just to keep the child from great harm. "When you hit a child it has 'nothing to do with protecting [them] and everything to do with imposing [your] will upon [them].'" If you knew what real abuse was, you could have never used those words to describe a debatable form of discipline. If anything, you have diminished the horrible nature of true cruelty and a desire to harm rather than teach by diminishing it to the level of someone using a disciplinary method you don’t approve of. Just because you don’t like that parents spank their children doesn’t mean that they don’t have the best intentions at heart. I reread the beginning of the thread and the wooden spoon conversation wasn’t about these parents hitting their children with a wooden spoon. It was about their parents hitting them. I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset about their memories. They have no control over what their parents did, only their reaction to it. Laughing about is their right. "By the way, please can you show me where I have written about my work with children; I would like to review what was said." Why don’t you clear up that sticking point and just explain about your work with children. "If you are not a farm animal but a responsible adult member of society then you should not be abusing children." Do you really believe that farm animals abuse their children? nevets: @Darkling wrote: "The situation I've been thinking about is that last minute save..." I am in 100% agreement with you here. :-) @Darkling wrote: "Just because you don’t like that parents spank their children doesn’t mean that they don’t have the best intentions at heart." I agree with what you said about motives in many cases and I am sure that many adults who hit children may believe that they are shaping their child's character and doing it in the right way for the right reasons, however that does not mean that they are the right reasons. Just because someone has positive motives does not mean their actions are positive. @Darkling wrote: "I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset about their memories." What happened in the past is of no consequence, is is their actions today that count. @Darkling wrote: "Why don't you clear up that sticking point and just explain." Because Pasobrio made a claim and I want her to substantiate it. [Continued...] @Darkling wrote: "Do you really believe that farm animals abuse their children?" To state the obvious: humans are not horses. What counts as abuse is different for horses and humans. [Update 7] [Final Update] pasobrio aka AKGE: As for that last minute save the small spank you give is to teach the child that they will be hurt if they touch that outlet or run into the street. We do this so the child learns without without that child having to suffer the damaging consequences that are far worse from the act thet they are about to do. If you don't teach a child that something is painfull they will not learn to aasociate that action with pain and will continue to try to do it. It's basic cause and effect with a dose of adversion therapy. And discipline must have a negativity aspect or it holds no value. If all the child ever gets is possitive all the time when something negative does happen they don't know how to cope. Like college girls who have never received a negative comment from a teach trying to commit suicide because a professor told them they were not up to snuff. (Harvard study I beleive.) For some children that may mean a time out for others a swat is the negative action. You must tailor your discipline to each child as an idvidual. And what do you mean discplining your child is not fo rthe right reasons? If we didn't care we wouldn't discipline. nevets: This is the snag. You don't need to teach a child with pain. If you hurt someone in a desperate rush to keep them from harm thats one thing, if you hit them as "discipline" it is something completely different. Just like with the example of a 1 year old child reaching for a plug, they were doing nothing wrong and it is completely inappropriate to hit the baby for exploring. Guidance, as I have written before, does not need to involve striking a defenseless human being. pasobrio aka AKGE: As for the whole thing about farm animals you really missed the whole point. Guess you're still on the fact that I used animals as an example. Let me explain futher. I uesed horses and their bond with their children as an example of how using physcal punishment does not damage the bond between parent and child. In fact in most cases it strenghtens it. Case in point my great grnadma spanked. I had more respect and love for her then I ever had for my own mother who gave no discipline at all. Why? Because I knew she gave a damn about teaching me right from wrong. How? Because she told me so and also showered me with the attention and affection I craved. nevets: I will let you finish typing before I respond... pasobrio aka AKGE: No, they were doing something wrong they were reaching for an outlet that would hurt them. Exploring is fine, but you need to teach children there are limits and sometimes grave cosiquences for that exploration. Hense the small tap with the "no". It makes a far deeper impression on them. That's adversion traing. As far the shared parenting in my family our children are taught that you must obey all the adults around you because they are the authority. If you are in another family member's house and you are doing something you shouldn't it is their house and they hold the authority. The only person higher then them is the parent. And we don't hit we swat on the butt. No marks and no pain in most cases and only as a last resort. The only one here who's painting a grim picture of my family is you and since you have no day to day contact that is not your place. Because you also forget that we are very loving and attentive parents who take a strong interst in not only our child but all the children in the family. We also allow our children to explore and play and do all that they want within the laws of the family. We even lat them rough house. And as I stated before I am a widow and I need the support of my family and my deceased fiancee's to help me raise my sons. For the lesons on being a man I have no choice, but to rely on Jay's brother Toby. And so does their sister. He loves our children as he loves his own and takes a strong interest in doing right by them. And that means firm discipline. As for my claims I am quite sure that in this small amout if time you haven't obtained your copy of teh book I mentioned nor have you had a chance to read it. Sorry, dear, I believe that in order to teach some one the information mus t not be spoon fed, but learned on one's own. nevets: Please let me know when you are finished writing. Morgenstern: nevets, your implication that I struck my child INSTEAD of installing safety plugs is obtuse. I slapped his hand after his repeated attempts to remove the plugs, after time outs had failed. pasobrio aka AKGE: I am. And Morgenster we did the same thing. Gavin is his father's child and that kind of stubborn runs deep. nevets: @Morgenstern: You are talking about a 1 year old. Please see the Dr. Sears page. [Last comment on this thread.] @Pasobrio wrote: "And what do you mean discplining your child is not for the right reasons?" This was actually a typo which I will now correct. In my comment to Darkling I was writing that even if someone has positive motives their actions may not be correct. @Pasobrio wrote: "No, they were doing something wrong they were reaching for an outlet that would hurt them." There is really no point in repeating what I have written about hitting a 1 year old child that reaches towards something dangerous, just look above and read the Dr. Sears page. @Pasobrio wrote: "As for the whole thing about farm animals you really missed the whole point." I understand what you wrote but I do not think what you have written is criedible. @Pasobrio wrote: "Sorry, dear, I believe that in order to teach some one the information mus t not be spoon fed..." Please, don't call me dear. When you make a claim it is your responsibility to support it. There are millions of studies that say many different things, they need to be analyzed. Some are credible, some are not. Citing an institution and no study does not automatically make what you write have substance. If a child thinks of committing suicide because a professor says their work is not up to scratch there is a problem, this does not mean that the problem is that the child was not hit enough. So far you have not supported a single thing you have written. But this is not about you or the lack of a substantial argument, this is not about who is going to "win" - its about children who are being hit by adults. Sadly, there isn't any point in continuing this anymore. Tc. [See comment thread for updates. Link: http://tinyurl.com/2roqyc] Further comments: I want to link you to 4 other answers to this question which I approve of: # http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/861376 # http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/861359 # http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/865516 # http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/865801 Finally I want to leave you with another duplicate of the first few comments, because I think they demonstrate the sickness so clearly. Morgenstern: lol my husband got the wooden spoon too - he says once his mother was so mad she pulled it right out of a pot of spaghetti sauce and got sauce all over the wall and it looked like a blood bath hehe :o) idne aka AKGoTE2: lmbo Lindzdog: hahaha, yes i remember my mum getting so angry and doing things like that and her saying "dont make me get the wooden spoon!!!" nevets: That's sick. Morgenstern: nevets, I belive you've just insulted at least two people's parents with your comment. idne aka AKGoTE2: Don't hold it against him he's fairly young and probably doesn't have kids. lol nevets: @Morgenstern: Did I personally attack anyone? No. I simply commented on the fact that this: "dont make me get the wooden spoon!!!" is disgusting. Lindzdog: please explain in what way is that phrase disgusting? nevets: What you are describing is nothing more than physical abuse, I don't get why it's so funny to strike a defenseless child with a kitchen utensil. It is not necessary and should not be condoned. I suggest you read PrettyPirate and Mandydl's answers. Morgenstern: I think that this is something people are unable to form good opinions on until they have children, once someone has children and has the same opinion am I more likely to have this conversation with them. [...] Thank you for reading.

I think that all children require a swat on the butt sometime in there growing up. Time out is not worth a darn. I got the wooden spoon too and there is nothing wrong with me. Not saying that I would use that on my children but the hand worked fine. That is why these young teens have no respect for anyone. It is really sad that they don't respect there parents let alone a stranger. I always did and always will.

I agree with Morgenstern. I think that a well planned spanking, not done in anger, is effective. Parent says "you do 'this' and you get 'that' " and it becomes very clear to the child. However just reacting and swatting a child or slapping him for saying or doing something is wrong, wrong, wrong and does little to discipline or instruct a child. It's all about teaching the child. You use what will work. You start with the least harsh and try many things but sometimes you have to use other methods. I was a very stubborn child, a very good child but stubborn. Sending me to my room never worked. No dinner? FIne with me. I would outwill my mother all the time. But tell me that my father would punish me when he got home if I didn't do such and such made me quite the perfect child. And he only swatted me, not anything like beating or slapping or worse. It was the thought that I had embarrassed myself enough to be swatted that did it. You use what works for the child.

No, it's not, and quite frankly, I believe that most people who physically punish their children are often uncreative, lazy, ignorant, or all three.

Well, by using the term physical force you've already loaded the question and let lose the hounds. Now if you're talking about beating the child black and blue with your fists and anything handy over every little thing then, no, that's abuse. But if you're talking about a little smack on the rump when the mouth has crossed the line or the rules are constantly being ignored then, yes, it's acceptable. And I mean open hand on the butt and maybe the arm or shoulder. Never hard enough to leave a mark, but a slight sting. And there are times when that child is so out of control that you are going to have to physicly restrain them to stop them. I have to do it for Gavin when he needs a time out. I have herd the arguement that it makes children violent and more likely to hit. Not true. Children who are not spanked will hit at about 9 months. Why? Because they don't have the ability to express anger or frustration any other way. And when you look at the studies comeing out now the children raised in non-spanking homes are more violent then the ones raised in spanking homes. Why? Because in spanking homes the child learns that being hit hurts and isn't a nice thing to do because you will get swatted back. Children in non-spanking homes don't get this lesson so they are less likely to have the abilty to deal with someone elses anger or the true consiquences of their actions. Add to that the rules in non-spanking homes are more lax in some cases and easier to ignore because after all a time out is cake compared to how we were disciplined. Plus, we are now taught to discipline by getting on the child's level and not to change our tone of voice from calm to angry. Not good, you give up authority that way and to effectively discipline you need authority. Otherwise it's just a joke. And here's something to think about from the animal kingdom. I have worked with animals for years, especially horses one of the most gentle and trusting creatures know to man. And this I wall use horses as my example. All broodmares use physical force to discipline their young. I'm talking biting and kicking dead on. They are also some of the most loving and strongly bonded mother/child relationships I have ever seen. And for all the "abuse" theses foals get they do not grow up to be vicisious and out of control beasts. In fact it's the exact opposite. They grow up to be well adjusted and fully functioning memebers of the herd who know their place and how to behave. And child psychology is not much diffrent because I can take what I use on my horses and use it on my children and get the same results.

No, there are better, more creative ways of solving problems and teaching them. Withholding priviledges for bad behavior is one of the very best means, and is tried and true.

Can I differ with you on terminology? Children should be corrected and disciplined. Criminals should be punished. That being said, the proper balance of love and correction can make children grow up into very nice people. A very small amount of pain when they are quite young can keep them from a very great amount when they are older. When they get old enough that a spanking with your bare hand isn't enough to keep them from defying your authority, they are old enough that you have to stop using corporal punishment and think of other things. And that really is the only reason a child should ever be spanked--not for carelessness, not for childish irresponsibility, not even for misbehavior, but only for direct defiance. A child needs to know what the boundaries are, and he also needs to know that his father is strong enough to protect him. A father who can't even control a little kid may not be able to protect him from outside threats.

I removed this answer b/c it was a little over the top. I was very hurt by some of the comments made to me. I have a challenge for all answerbaggers. Can we stop bashing each other and simply state out opinions without putting down or attacking anyone else. I admit that I have done this also but maybe we can all make an effort to change. Then answerbag can truly be place to exchange ideas instead of a popularity contest. I don't know if this message will be deleted by the moderators but hopefully some people will see it.

It shouldn't be used until all other methods have failed. Some children just need physical force as a punishment but ofcourse also keep in mind that giving a lot of physical punishments might make the child stubborn or it may ultimate lead towards child abuse. So be careful while punishing physically, but it is really required in some cases.

of course not

No. Is physical force a justifiable method of punishing criminals any more? No. SO WHY WOULD IT BE FOR CHILDREN!? ***** Besides, it's a human rights violation. "Convention of the Rights of a Child" Article 19 1. States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child. 2. Such protective measures should, as appropriate, include effective procedures for the establishment of social programmes to provide necessary support for the child and for those who have the care of the child, as well as for other forms of prevention and for identification, reporting, referral, investigation, treatment and follow-up of instances of child maltreatment described heretofore, and, as appropriate, for judicial involvement. ***** If the country you live in is a member of the UN, it is illegal for you to hurt children. http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml ^ If you're on that list and you punish children with physical force, you deserve to be in jail. ***** Of course, I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, so please don't act like I am. I am merely telling you all that it is wrong, unjustifiable, and most likely criminal for you to do so. ***** Using physical force to punish children is human rights violation.

This question is extremely loaded. It is like asking "When did you stop hitting your wife?" First of all, what do you mean by punishing? And secondly, what do you mean by physical force. I would rather discipline or correct than punish. Punish is a negative word with terrible implications when used regarding children. Secondly, if my child were standing on a railway track and I had to push them to get them off and save their life, I would be using physical force and I think I would be justified. However, in most instances, children are not standing on railway tracks. They are testing their boundaries. In all higher animals on this earth, babies can be nipped, bumped, growled at or lightly smacked. These are all examples of physical force that is positive because it leaves no scars and teaches what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. In human society, a small smack can teach a child the same lesson. I would never advocate hurting a child to the extent that marks are left or blood flows. That is plainly not on. If it hurts your hand, you have hit too hard, in my opinion.

I don't think so. TO me as a child (and I was VERY rarely corporally punished and as my mother said it was when she was at her wits end with other matters not because of me) it meant you can use the fact you are stronger than someone else to prove a point. Might doesn't equal right. But then I am deeply anti-authoritarian, respect and co-operation are earned not an automatic right no matter who you are. Besides as I was never in fear of physical retribution I learned to respect my parents for telling me the truth . If we disagreed on a matter of conduct it was "well if you think you are acting right so be it..." and I always knew damned well if I wasn't. I think it made me responsible for my own actions. I often wonder is it OK to use corporal punishment on an elderly relative with senile dementia when they are out of line and won't listen to reason, or an adult with severe learning difficulties?

We use a degree of physical force when it comes to disciplining children so the answer in my opinion is yes. If your child is well behaved and respects authority then hopefully you don't have to resort to this. Unfortunately for my child. Conventional ways of discipline (time out, take something away ETC) is'nt working. She is manipulating her mom and dad into achieving what she wants so we've had to spank her. I hate doing this.......but it's the only thing that will really works.

A non violent spanking is ok, but other methods also need to play a part in raising children.

I don't know. I have no children of my own. My parents gave us spankings. None of us turned out bad. My sister and her husband decided against spankings. They went to all of the "proper parenting" classes and did the workshops and bought the books. Their son was constantly in trouble because there was no real deterrent. He became physically violent with both of his parents while he was a juvenile. After turning 21 and still living at home, he got high and broke my sister's arm and nose. I found him at a friend's house and promptly kicked the shit out of him. He spent about 3 weeks in the hospital. Since then, he's become quite the model son. Would giving him a spanking when he was little have prevented his behavior? Who knows. It works pretty well now, tho.

"Spare the rod, hate your child" Use a paddle such as used for ping pog, you only need to swing one or two times so they get the point.Also don't just hit them and leave.Afterwards sit down and talk with them.They understand.

I've answered this about a thousand times, but since this question keeps coming up I'm going to be brief-Yes, if I hadn't been physically punished I would have come out much worse. Search for the rest of my answer, im too lazy to retype it.

Nope. I avoid violence of any form whenever possible.

depends on the definition of spanking and the definition of something wrong. Rule of thumb: If you have to use it more than a few times in the kid's life, you're using it wrong. If it hurts more than a rough high-five, you're doing it wrong. I was spanked as a kid. For telling a bald-faced lie, and for starting to dash into traffic. My father caught me by the wrist as I ran by, pulled me back, and thwapped my rear. Not going to argue that that was wrong.

For only one reason as I said on AB before. If they cross the street without looking they get it on the bottom ( with clothes on) but they get it good. I only had to do it once to my kids and once to my g/daughter....I wanted to make sure they understood that you stop,look and listen. They got the message and it was never repeated.

Yes. I have seen too many people coddle their children and send them into "time out" when they were bad. All this teaches the children is that they can get away with pretty much anything and just spend 20 minutes in their room for it. If they do something that is dangerous or blatantly against the rules, then they should get a swat on the behind. This shows them that there are consequences to their breaking the rules. I do not advocate beating them, but a spanking is ok. A spanking does more to gain their attention than hurt them. A beating is just plain wrong.

a smack on the bum never hurt no one ...but not for everything because that would lessen its impact ...a few warnings before hand is always good and as anyone my age knew what would happen if you got to the third warning ...lol so you soon learned not to go there

I SAY U SHOULD CORRECT YOUR CHILDREN, THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR CHILDREN TODAY THERE IS NOT ENOUGH DISIPLINE, I WAS RAISED IN THE COUNTRY WHEN MOM SAID U DO SOMETHING U BETTER GET WITH IT.........

A smack on the bum didnt do me any harm growing up, my kids get a smack when they do something they know they should not be doing. I smack them on top of their clothes, its not like i beat them senseless, but they understand right from wrong now. Sending them to their room, or to sit on a step doesnt always work.

Yes I do.

No, I do not. Too many people believe the word discipline = punishment. It does not. Discipline, especially self-discipline means the ability to make the correct choices and adhere to a system of rules. Punishment is often the quickest way to teach this principle, but it is certainly not the best way. It can result in a child that has only learned not to get caught, or to fear the parent. To properly teach discipline, you must first practice it yourself, and then choose which long lasting method of behavior modification works well with your child. It begins very early in life, and lasts through childhood and all through life. I believe that showing the child the correct behavior goes a long way.

Never! there are many other well known ways to discipline a child. Reserve spanking for your GF or wife.

Having been in education I think that I am qualified to say that spanking is counter-productive and is often the cause of neurosis or character-disorder. Avoid spanking your child if you love him.

A child thrives on consistancy and discipline. It is our job as parents to keep our children safe, until they are old enough to comprehend a spanking is the only way they know they don't want to do it again. I would much rather give a spanking on their behind then to have something awful happen to them.

Yes. There is nothing wrong with a little smack to the bottom.

Spare the rod Spoil the child. It's in the Bible. Read it. Follow it.

Yeah, sure. It definetly taught me to behave. It wasn't like they were beating me with sticks or throwing me out of windows...just slapping my ass around for a minute... Sounds kinda weird when I put it like that...

no, i don't believe by spanking your child will help you have a good kid. explain to the child his faults and ground him so that the child would know what he did wrong.

Aye.. indeed. Just don't break the skin ;)

If the child it told why they are being spanked and when the spanking is not really painful, just the thought of the parent punishing the child should be enough to make the act sink in.

If the spanking is warranted, and the child knows why they are getting a spanking, then I do not see wrong in it. I do see wrong in just whailing the dickens out of them for nothing.

It wasn't used on me but I believe in the principle so long as it isn't hard enough to bruise or break skin That and most importantly it shouldn't be used when a child makes just any mistake, only when they do something wrong out of mischief especially when they've been told not to and given a good reason why they shouldn't Honest mistakes or things out of their control shouldn't get them a spanking IMO For example I heavily do not think a child should be spanked for wetting their bed, they were asleep for crying out loud, people who spank their kids for that are, quite plainly, idiots

No i personaly dont believe in spanking a child. My parents, mainly my dad use to spank me for pretty much everything he didnt like. When i got older I tryed to distance myself as much as possible from him. Had he of never spanked and used OTHER metheds of punishment instead (in moderation) we would probably be a lot closer.....

As opposed to spanking them when they do something right??? Yes, sure do.

I think that spanking done as a known punishment without anger is fine and does teach, not hurt a child. I think if you blindly swat or hit while you are in the throes of anger it teaches nothing. If your child knows that doing "X" may cause a spanking, and it is administered as a punishment and very clear to teh child why it is happening, again, not done with any anger, it is a fine teaching tool for some children. It worked very well on me. Spanking was overkill for my husband. He was very sensitive child and didn't need it at all. For him it was overkill. He was devastated to just learn he had disappointed his mom or dad, no spanking needed. I was a bit more stubborn, quiet but stubborn:-)

Honestly, the way that most people describes physical force makes the word seem awful. I was punished with a spanking. That did not turn me crazy and want to shoot up a school. Children now and days get away with too much stuff. One day I was in the grocery store and a child said "bitch" out loud to his sister. And what did the mother or grandmother do? Nothing. She talked to him told him not to do that. I understand if your words are effective. However in most cases their not. "No don't do that." What will that solve? But telling your children that what your doing right now is not right. And giving you children a reason to do it again. All children are trying to do is test their limitations. If they know that there will not be any true punishment, then they realize they have no limitations to what they can do. I not saying that parents have the rigt to abuse their children. There is a difference between abuse and punishment. So instead of spending all of your time judging a parent on how they punish their child. Why don't you take you time learning that difference.

i belive it is okay to hit your child ONLY if nessesary. if you can stop your child from behaving bad oraly with out spanking then you ddont hit him. you should only use this as a last resort of bad behavior. thats what i was thought

Never

Sometimes - if they are trying to hit or kick or otherwise injure you, then physically preventing them from doing that is fine. Also, some kids need a quick swat if they do something dangerous or are very defiant. I don't believe in beatings with straps, sticks, canes, power cords and suchlike. That's brutality rather than discipline.

It depends on what you mean by "physical force". If you are trying to restrain a child from being aggressive or prevent him/her from getting into danger, yes. If you use physical force to beat or hit a child to punish him/her, no.

I do not believe my inlaws ever used physical force on their kids and look at them... all model citizens... except for the fact that 2 are well into their 20s and have never earned a wage in their lives and the rest which have worked, have never fully earned a living.

i am a 17 year old child and i think that physical force is a justifiable method of punishing children because i had both a dad who wooped me and a mom who just yelled at me .... when i did something wrong and my dad wooped me i was embarrised but i knew that what i did was wrong and it didnt need to be done again but at the same time i got a lot of respect for my dad and i never backed talked him and i never did anything wrong because i didnt want to be hit again .... but with mi mom i knew that when i did something wrong all she did was yell at me and i knew i could do it again with no "real" punishment. it didnt help me at all in learning anything or even whats right and wrong and i grew up having no respect for her .... my dad hasnt wooped me since the 4th grade but still it made me a better person in knowing what was right and wrong and i think that mi mom had a harder time earning my respect because she didnt establish that she was the authority figure in the house and she didnt have that im a parent your the child do as your told relationship with me ...... i guess what im saying is whooping your kids is something that should be done inorder to help them learn what is right and wrong so so they dont turn into school shooters

No.

If we spare physical punishment, we will spoil the children. Physical punishment is part of our discipling them.

spare the rod and spoil the child. simple